Forum:Demotion of Temporaryeditor78 V2
It seems that TE78 (this is what I will refer to Temporaryeditor78 as, for brevity) does not have the highest approval rating as an administrator. This very forum is a testament to that, as it is the second of its kind. In the preceding debate, TE78 maintained his admin rights as a result of a 9-5-11 vote. However, it should be noted that a good portion those opposing the demotion of TE78 are now either inactive or very small-time contributors; while, on the other hand, those who supported his demotion were very prominent editors who have contributed to the Mass Effect Wiki in a variety of ways. Excluding the small-time editors who seemingly only returned to cast their votes (NOTE: I am in no way saying that their votes are insignificant in contrast to those of users with more contributions; just that they have contributed significantly less than those who supported the proposal), the final vote would have been 9-5-7 (users excluded: User:MarkRulez711 ( · ), User:Perkins98 ( · ), User:Titan45 ( · ), and User:YamiX0 ( · )). Despite some users against the proposal leaving the wiki immediately after the conclusion of the vote, a few still incessantly debated against the supporters. The thing that struck me while reading through the discussion section of the last proposal was that TE78 doesn't need to be an administrator to do what he does best – add content and revert vandalism; he's a content editor (and a damn good one). Since the issue is TE78 lacking some of the most necessary qualities an administrator is expected to possess—mediation skills, tact, and an overall mature manner of handling situations—I honestly don't see why his admin rights can't be given to someone who possesses the aforementioned, as well as advanced wiki prowess (like Elseweyr—who seems to be a community favorite—or anyone else who is capable of maintaining a community, rather than immaturely handling situations, and the Mass Effect Wiki's technical matters). After reading through the debate, I was amazed to see that all users against the proposal failed to state exactly why TE78 needed admin rights to begin with. He's a voracious content/file contributor to the mainspace, but, to put it bluntly, his social skills are sub-par and his usage of admin privileges is nigh nonexistent. Allowing him to retain his rollback rights would enable him to continue to easily revert vandal revisions as well – yet another thing that he does within the mainspace. Sure, he changes the wiki's background image in Wikia.css on a monthly basis for whatever reasons, but that's an unnecessary aspect of wiki maintenance and isn't at all mandatory. As my stance on this situation is of a neutral user making an assessment of what he's seen thus far, I will also leave those in favor of supporting the demotion of TE78 with a little note: Supporting his demotion could very well result in him leaving the wiki entirely, and that's something this wiki simply can't afford (due to the lackluster performance of the other admins). TE78 truly is the only active and contributing admin on this wiki, as sad as it is. Another admin could be selected, of course, but I have yet to see anyone on this wiki with the mainspace credibility TE78 has displayed (though TE78's attitude has seemingly played a significant role in this). TE78 really doesn't require admin rights in the first place, as he contributes in a manner doable by the average user. Such privileges are more suited for someone who can actually promote wiki cooperation and growth, rather than a user with a lone wolf mentality. Potential results of his demotion should be noted and thought on, however... The community really has two choices: take the chance of demoting the most active contributor to the wiki in recent years who has contributed to the wiki in a myriad of ways—... which happens to include the decrease of community activity and cooperation—and subsequently risk losing him altogether, or suck it up, let him retain his admin rights and allow him do what he does best—adding stellar content—while other users continue to suffer and leave as a result of his attitude and demeanor. Versta (talk) 23:59, January 29, 2015 (UTC) Discussion Well, my piece is that TE78 is unpleasant to work with, in addition to being abrasive. But the guy gets results. Basically every other admin left, leaving TE78 as the only one who shows up to work here on a consistent basis and get things done, so if we demote the only consistent admin, we're stuck if a problem that requires an admin immediately shows up, so we might as well leave TE78's rights up. Yes, I don't think he's the best admin we could have, but he's the only one we do have that's still active. Unless someone else wants to take up the job of admin here, and be consistent in such a job, then TE78 is really our only choice. So, in short, I propose we let TE78 keep his rights because there seems to be no alternative solutions beyond go with the abrasive, consistently active admin or no admin at all. -- 04:01, January 30, 2015 (UTC) :The latter is only a subsequent possibility, should TE78 react immaturely in the advent of his demotion and leave the wiki altogether. Versta (talk) 04:23, January 30, 2015 (UTC) I'll agree with that. -- 04:59, January 30, 2015 (UTC) I have a suggestion: how about a proposal to promote other active users to amnin status instead of demoting the only truly committed one we got.(I mean he hasn't done any rhing bad in my book and more amnins would balance things out anyway.)Forever224 (talk) 11:12, January 30, 2015 (UTC) :Users here can request admin status through the appropriate forum if they wanted to (and provided they meet the requirements on the admin request page). Great Mara (talk) 22:19, January 30, 2015 (UTC) Why don't we ask Elseweyr or DeldiRe if they want to consider stepping up to the job? They seem capable enough to handle the job. -- 02:47, January 31, 2015 (UTC) :Alrighty. It would help to have a second admin, and it's best that there be another to bring to the table what TE78 seemingly isn't capable of—mediation skills, tact, and an overall mature manner of handling situations. :In all honesty, I don't see why both Elseweyr and DeldiRe can't be granted admin rights, as the rest of the admins are inactive to the point of warranting their demotion anyway (since their privileges are going to waste). Both also seem to be capable of doing the aforementioned, as well as content editing; that's a plus too. Versta (talk) 16:17, January 31, 2015 (UTC) ::... ... ... Have either one of them ever requested admin rights on the request page? Great Mara (talk) 16:40, January 31, 2015 (UTC) :::You do know that all of the current administrators were simply granted administrator rights based on community approval, right (according to the Requests for Adminiship archive)? Versta (talk) 17:57, January 31, 2015 (UTC) Hi everyone, You all know my position on the demotion of TE78, it's a really bad idea and this discussion is useless in that regard. If we vote again, most of the editors will step for Temp (including me and, I think, Elseweyr). This discussion could be useful if you proposed something instead of being against someone. I would clearly support a solution for the fact that Temp is alone to manage the wiki AND the community. I'm touched that you think that Elsie and me could be admin and it's half true. Elseweyr would be a really good admin as she has good wiki skill, ME skills and she is a patient person. When it comes to me, I do not agree as I don't have the wiki skills needed to become admin (and not enough free time). That's why you should try to convince Elseweyr to step forward if she feels ok with the task. For my part, I'm willing to help this wiki to become more friendly with newcomers in order to develop a great community as it used to be. The actual problems are not linked to Temp78, it would be worse without him. As I want that this negative discussion to be closed, I'm ok to do my part to fix the problem and I'm ok to as a "senior editor" status but I'm not skilled enough to be an admin on this wiki. With this new status I would start a new project: the creation of a welcoming atmosphere (for example: easier and more welcoming manual of style, a chat more active, some new nice features,...). Those change would have to be approved by the community, including TE78. With a more official status, I would also try to be more active to fix dispute between users and admins or to help newcomers with the basics features of the wiki. As I'm not able (and not enough time) to "manage" the wiki and because Temp78 is really good at the job, I would take more time to manage the community even if I still want to improve the content of the wiki. Would this solution be enough to stop those non sense proposals of demotion ? Will it help you to recognize the qualities of Temp even if he can be rude sometimes?--DeldiRe (talk) 18:57, January 31, 2015 (UTC) I recognize his good qualities, it's just that the bad ones are the ones remembered. As General Douglas MacArthur once said, "You're remembered for the rules you break, not the ones you follow." and it clearly holds true here. TE78's a good admin in his duties, I admit that, but the negative things he's done are the ones that led to this discussion. I'm all for letting him keep his rights because he's simply too valuable to lose, but the behavior needs to be rectified. I do understand if you don't want to be admin, it's a big responsibility. I do appreciate the proposal for a new project about the welcoming atmosphere though, it sounds like a wonderful idea. -- 20:54, January 31, 2015 (UTC) :I remain in favor of demotion, having already stated the reasons in the previous discussion. I do stop by from time to time on the off chance that a new vote on the topic is taking place. TE78 is the reason I am no longer very active here. Cattlesquat (talk) 14:15, February 2, 2015 (UTC) ::Would my proposal help for your return?--DeldiRe (talk) 15:03, February 2, 2015 (UTC) :::The only solutions (apart from demotion) that I can imagine being workable would be either (a) a new bureaucrat who is actually regularly present (unlike Spart who used to be a good B'crat but is just frankly not present and no longer able to hold admins to account) and to whom TE78 would be accountable or (b) a substantial number of new admins who would have equal authority to TE78. :::It seems pretty clear that (a) isn't going to happen. Solution (b) seems at least "conceivable" in that if the community decided to elect a whole bunch of admins and did so formally, Wikia would stand by that decision and promote them. But apart from that I am not interested in contributing while TE78 remains the sole arbiter of everything. Hopefully that answers your question. Cattlesquat (talk) 21:19, February 2, 2015 (UTC) It sounds reasonable, but if someone doesn't want to be here, they don't want to be here. -- 17:45, February 2, 2015 (UTC) As others have said, we need another active moderator. That's the case if Temp is not demoted and is especially true if he is not. Any proposal to demote Temp is likely to fail until that happens. That's not to say that it would pass if we had other mods but that it almost definitely won't pass. TheUnknown285 (talk) 23:45, February 3, 2015 (UTC) :And yet it's unlikely (some would say impossible) for a new one to arise while Temp can just obstruct anyone he takes a disliking to. Cattlesquat (talk) 00:17, February 4, 2015 (UTC) So we're stuck either way, then? -- 00:46, February 4, 2015 (UTC) I haven't been on in a very long time, but I would support demotion, having viewed the situation escalate and boil over roughly a month ago. I do not believe that TemporaryEditor78's actions were becoming of an admin, and that their ability to contribute does not in any way compensate for the severe lack of tact that has been displayed with regards to warnings and punishments. I am not in a position to consistently contribute content, nor do I have the technical skill to format CSS, although I would be willing to clean up the site semi-regularly in a senior editor capacity if some of the more capable editors on this site were promoted to admin positions. Lksdjf (talk) 11:29, February 4, 2015 (UTC) I think it should be noted that as long as the members of the administrative team (as well as a significant number of other contributors) remain in the "against" camp, Wikia Staff is not likely to intervene in any way. That aside, even if wiki activity will probably remain low for quite some time still, I agree we need more admins and possibly other personnel that are actually present. In my mind Temporaryeditor78 should retain his rights for similar reasons as he earned them in the first place, and I don't think removing them is a solution to anything. My own activity has not been very consistent over the past few months, but as of this spring I should have more time to commit to maintaining the wiki again. I wouldn't mind working with TE78 (or the others) as part of the admin team and I think I could contribute positively to the community at large, so I might submit a request for adminship in the near future. Elseweyr talk • 11:06:57, 2015-02-05 (UTC) 11:06, February 5, 2015 (UTC) :As a "point of order", there's AFAIK precisely one situation where Wikia staff will intervene outside of a TOS violation, and that's if a community expresses it wants an admin removed in a majority vote for impeachment. In their blogs on this subject they even describe situations where entire administrations have been impeached en masse (not that we're in that situation here, but the point being that in an impeachment situation the opinions of the administrative team carry only such weight as the community choose to give them - their actual votes count no more than ours). The majority vote against impeachment a few months ago stands; but it wasn't exactly the landslide vote of confidence that SpartHawg got a couple years ago. There was a substantial no confidence faction, and that could grow or shrink with time depending on behavior and other factors. If a tipping point was reached and a future impeachment vote passed here, it would certainly be enforceable. Meanwhile... you would certainly qualify as a good MEWiki administrator! Cattlesquat (talk) 14:50, February 5, 2015 (UTC) ::Finally a good news, I will try to play my part in this task to restore trust between admin team and the regular editors. I could even start a bit sooner. HOWEVER, those changes have to stop those demotion discussions! If you are still against TE78, I don't want to waste my time cause we won't be able to improve the community and the wiki without him... --DeldiRe (talk) 16:18, February 5, 2015 (UTC) ::Just to be clear, I've never been the one sponsoring demotion proposals. In spite of my various run-ins with TE78, it never seemed worth creating community disruption over. But when the proposal came along from another source, a look at the case on the merits clearly indicated demotion to me. Reasonable people can disagree on whether technical talent & frequent wiki activity outweigh unsuitable demeanor and willfully bad attitude. Personally I place great stock in the values that Wikia promotes for administrators - its materials strongly emphasize personal skills and diplomacy over technical talent. Feel free to disagree - opinions, and all that. It sounds like at least the two of us are in agreement that promoting Elseweyr would be a great step in the right direction - yay for that. But at present I would still vote for demotion if someone again puts it to a vote. I could always change my mind in the future, but so far TE78 hasn't done anything to change my opinion (and certainly hasn't made any effort to). That doesn't the community can't accomplish other positive things in the meantime, especially as we near the likely announce date for the next game. Cattlesquat (talk) 16:29, February 5, 2015 (UTC) :::I completely agree and I understand your opinion, but I just ask that everybody drop this vote and wait for a new team to arise. If the situation don't become better with the new team, then it will still be time to launch a vote. As I already said, I would prefer, at this time, to see discussions on positive projects instead of demotion proposals. And I'm sure that you feel the same ;) --DeldiRe (talk) 16:39, February 5, 2015 (UTC) ::::Acknowledged. Sounds like we're all good :-) Cattlesquat (talk) 17:15, February 5, 2015 (UTC)